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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:19 pm 
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AdminAdam wrote:
Episode 71 had filler scenes. Most of what Zubashi and Gangles do is filler, it's like the episode has to be 8 minutes long so there's a scene of them in there that accomplished nothing. Most of the episode accomplished little so therefore I'm standing by my arguement that it's the closest thing to filler that we're gonna get this season.


I kind of have to agree with Adam on Zubashi and Gangles. I'll get into this in my review of all of season 5, but the Zubashi and Gangles scenes definitely feel like filler.

Now granted, I get it. Stupid Mario Brothers is suppose to be a comedy. You want to have those scenes as well for the people who watch the show just for comedy. I know that finding a balance between the people who like comedy and the people who like the plot/action scenes has been difficult.

However, the Zubashi and Gangles scenes feel very out of place to me. It feels like half of the things they're doing are being done just because they're waiting for the plot to get to a specific point. I'm not saying don't have Zubashi and Gangles do comedic things, or even the villains for that matter. I personally enjoyed the Nox Decious/Zubashi/Gangles scenes earlier in the season with the whole magazine gag. Because at the time, I thought the preparation thing wasn't going to last this long, or at the very least they would show what they were doing to prepare.

That's one of the issues I'm having with this season. It's true that there are new things are being introduced every episode. So every episode does add something to the plot, and therefore isn't a filler episode. However, there are scenes are characters that are not doing much because we're waiting for the final episodes in the season to arrive, instead of because this and that are happening.

Zubashi and Gangles's comedic scenes could have been accepted as plot if they were interacting with the ninja army, either making plans or training ninjas or something. And those scenes could have been goofy and comedic because we know the ninjas are like that, we've established that from season 4. But instead, we see them doing on a date and never mentioning it again. Or going to see a movie, and probably coming back and saying "Oh that movie was good/terrible and sucky." All while saying again and again "We are still preparing our army."

I get that a lot of Stupid Mario Brothers has been about these kinds of scenes, where the characters go out and do these random things. That was fine in the eariler seasons when Mario and the gang was just hanging out, and was fine in season 4 where there wasn't a threat and everyone naturally went and goofed off. It was understandable.

But when Zubashi and Gangles are saying "the only reason we haven't attacked yet is because our army isn't ready is yet" while they're off doing random things, it just feels out of place. Heck, we even had a scene where Decious asks "What are you doing strategically?" and Zubashi responds "We're waiting for the right time." Even Decious agrees that isn't what should be happening, and every scene he's had I felt helped moved the plot.

Zubashi and Gangles aren't bad characters. They are funny, and we can have comedic villian scenes. I welcome them with open arms. But it doesn't have mean having the characters wait around because we haven't reached episode XX yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:57 am 
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AdminAdam wrote:
It depends on your definition of filler. Personally, I don't define filler as "no fighting". I define filler as time in a episode when nothing is accomplished that forwards the plot or the development of the characters and can be omitted from the episode without loosing anything. For example Episode 50 was a filler episode because it ended how it began with Snake at Mario's door demanding his money. The whole subplot of Wario and Luigi going to a high stakes poker? tourney had a laugh or two but it shows no other sides to the characters, introduces no new recurring characters, or anything. Ness learned Bananas won't give them their powers back. Completely and totaly skip-able.

Episode 71 had filler scenes. Most of what Zubashi and Gangles do is filler, it's like the episode has to be 8 minutes long so there's a scene of them in there that accomplished nothing. Most of the episode accomplished little so therefore I'm standing by my arguement that it's the closest thing to filler that we're gonna get this season.


yeah but episode 50 was one of the funniest episodes, sure it didn't accomplish anything, but neither did most of season 1. I wouldn't tell anyone to skip it.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:38 am 
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Richalvarez wrote:
AdminAdam wrote:
It depends on your definition of filler. Personally, I don't define filler as "no fighting". I define filler as time in a episode when nothing is accomplished that forwards the plot or the development of the characters and can be omitted from the episode without loosing anything. For example Episode 50 was a filler episode because it ended how it began with Snake at Mario's door demanding his money. The whole subplot of Wario and Luigi going to a high stakes poker? tourney had a laugh or two but it shows no other sides to the characters, introduces no new recurring characters, or anything. Ness learned Bananas won't give them their powers back. Completely and totaly skip-able.


yeah but episode 50 was one of the funniest episodes, sure it didn't accomplish anything, but neither did most of season 1. I wouldn't tell anyone to skip it.


Adam, I'm going to disagree with you on this. The first half of season 4 focused on Mario trying to get money to payback snake. It was simple plot that allowed for comedic situations like episode 50. That was the point of the first half of season 4, to focus on comedic situations similar to season 1 and 2 (which I still feel was a big comedy season despite having a plot.) For the situation the first half of season 1 had, Episode 50 was relevant. Sure, it didn't play a big part for the rest of the series, but it played within the bounds of what was going on. I personally don't think Episode 50 should be skipped because it's a great comedic episode.

You're thinking it's filler because it didn't contribute to the "trying to get the powers back/what was liquid doing at the time". But we eventually did get to that, and we had hints that it was coming in earlier episodes. Like the Ganon letter, and the ninjas in the background, which I thought was a great way to handle that for people who wanted plot during the big comedic section.

However, the situation for season 5 is very different than season 1/2 and four. We're establishing that all the characters are in a war. We know that decious wants to attack the darkness because he feels the darkness is a big threat to their plans. He entrusted Zubashi and Gangles to prepare an army of ninjas to take care of this. However, while they keep claiming that they're still preparing an army up to this point, all they've been doing is random stuff that never gets talked about and is quickly forgotten. This isn't a simple situation like season 4 where one character has a simple task to do like collect money he owes to his friend, which allows other characters to either goof off or find creative ways to help the character. It's been established that they're in a war. People are dying/getting injured. And instead of showing how they're planning on doing this, they're goofing off, and then the goofing off scenes are quickly forgotten. That's filler.

Now, doing this for a small part of the season? Hey, it's ok. Like I said, I thought the magazine scene with Decious, Zubashi and Gangles was hilarious. Even the follow up gag with finding out they stole the magazine from the Darkness was funny too. But the expectation was it was a quick break before Decious went off to be with the other villains to plan/do whatever they need to do. Zubashi and Gangles could have easily had comedic scenes with the ninjas. We've established all of this in season 4. The ninjas have a lot of potential for comedy and have been known to goof off. Heck, we saw this with the Ninjas heading off to assist Vherestorm. I would have loved to see this more in the season.

There's a big difference between characters goofing off/getting into silly situations when the world is calm, and characters waiting around when so much is on the line. That's why Zubashi and Gangles's scenes are filler.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:26 am 
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It's true that Zubashi and Gangles goof off. But it's not filler. There goofing off will bite them in the arse. So since it has a direct effect on the plot, its not filler.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Richalvarez wrote:
It's true that Zubashi and Gangles goof off. But it's not filler. There goofing off will bite them in the arse. So since it has a direct effect on the plot, its not filler.
I don't know about that. They were incompetent to begin with (See Zubashi Season 4). No one has ever viewed them as a threat so how can their goofing off be their own undoing?

TheHiddenOne wrote:
Richalvarez wrote:
AdminAdam wrote:
It depends on your definition of filler. Personally, I don't define filler as "no fighting". I define filler as time in a episode when nothing is accomplished that forwards the plot or the development of the characters and can be omitted from the episode without loosing anything. For example Episode 50 was a filler episode because it ended how it began with Snake at Mario's door demanding his money. The whole subplot of Wario and Luigi going to a high stakes poker? tourney had a laugh or two but it shows no other sides to the characters, introduces no new recurring characters, or anything. Ness learned Bananas won't give them their powers back. Completely and totaly skip-able.

yeah but episode 50 was one of the funniest episodes, sure it didn't accomplish anything, but neither did most of season 1. I wouldn't tell anyone to skip it.

Adam, I'm going to disagree with you on this. The first half of season 4 focused on Mario trying to get money to payback snake. It was simple plot that allowed for comedic situations like episode 50. That was the point of the first half of season 4, to focus on comedic situations similar to season 1 and 2 (which I still feel was a big comedy season despite having a plot.) For the situation the first half of season 1 had, Episode 50 was relevant. Sure, it didn't play a big part for the rest of the series, but it played within the bounds of what was going on. I personally don't think Episode 50 should be skipped because it's a great comedic episode.

You're thinking it's filler because it didn't contribute to the "trying to get the powers back/what was liquid doing at the time". But we eventually did get to that, and we had hints that it was coming in earlier episodes. Like the Ganon letter, and the ninjas in the background, which I thought was a great way to handle that for people who wanted plot during the big comedic section.

Now I wasn't knockin Season 4 as a whole, just Episode 50. It was good for some laughs but it was incredibly episodic. Like a cartoon, nothing important happened. Ignoring the plot of the second half of Season 4 the first half was focused on Mario getting Snake his money and this episode is skip-able in that aspect.

TheHiddenOne wrote:
However, the situation for season 5 is very different than season 1/2 and four. We're establishing that all the characters are in a war. We know that decious wants to attack the darkness because he feels the darkness is a big threat to their plans. He entrusted Zubashi and Gangles to prepare an army of ninjas to take care of this. However, while they keep claiming that they're still preparing an army up to this point, all they've been doing is random stuff that never gets talked about and is quickly forgotten. This isn't a simple situation like season 4 where one character has a simple task to do like collect money he owes to his friend, which allows other characters to either goof off or find creative ways to help the character. It's been established that they're in a war. People are dying/getting injured. And instead of showing how they're planning on doing this, they're goofing off, and then the goofing off scenes are quickly forgotten. That's filler.

Now, doing this for a small part of the season? Hey, it's ok. Like I said, I thought the magazine scene with Decious, Zubashi and Gangles was hilarious. Even the follow up gag with finding out they stole the magazine from the Darkness was funny too. But the expectation was it was a quick break before Decious went off to be with the other villains to plan/do whatever they need to do. Zubashi and Gangles could have easily had comedic scenes with the ninjas. We've established all of this in season 4. The ninjas have a lot of potential for comedy and have been known to goof off. Heck, we saw this with the Ninjas heading off to assist Vherestorm. I would have loved to see this more in the season.

Oh don't get me wrong, some of the Zubashi and Gangles stuff was hilarious. The Magazine gag, the date gag, etc. But once they made the breakfast joke and the movie gag, and I stopped laughing. It wasn't funny. goofing off - comedy = unfunny filler.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:42 pm 
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I do agree with Adam and HiddenOne that the Zubashi and Gangles doing random stuff has dragged on, but the filler thing doesn't bother me unless it's good filler (which it is). My issue is that it has gone on so long. Richie has the blessing of a GIANT array of cast members. I'm a filmmaker myself and the lack of actors I have access to has always frustrated me. My point is, we can have good and comedic filler, but it doesn't always have to be Zubashi and Gangles. Richie has access to all these other actors/characters that he can do some hilarious "filler" scenes. A lot of focus has been put on these two minor characters all of sudden. Like Richie said above, they potentially will have something important to do later on, but we haven't seen it yet. I'm gonna hold off on judging both Zubashi and Gangles until the series is over.

Now back to what I was discussing earlier. Yes, you have done a good job of bringing back old characters and locations and the subscribe voice! :) It is too late to re-shoot anything, but I have one suggestion: For the last episode you should use the original Stupid Mario Bros. title card. It would be super easy to add in. Just a thought.

Lastly, Richie, just in case you didn't see my answer to your earlier question because this whole filler argument ensued. The film school I will be going to is called Biola University. I will be studying Screenwriting and Television Production. I'm a transfer student, so I will be a sophomore when I go down there at the end of august. It's about 25 min. from Los Angeles. Pretty sure that's at the opposite of California that you are in, but I'm at your disposal if you need me for anything.


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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Richalvarez wrote:
It's true that Zubashi and Gangles goof off. But it's not filler. There goofing off will bite them in the arse. So since it has a direct effect on the plot, its not filler.


Oh I'm sure it will bite them in the arse. I would be surprised if it didn't. But I suppose I'm not using the correct word to describe my issue with Zubashi and Gangles. No it isn't filler. But I suppose I just have a preference to seeing Zubashi and Gangles interacting with other ninjas/villains and having comedic scenes with them rather than goofing off with dates and seeing movies.

I think that I'll wait though and see what happens with Zubashi and Gangles for now. Seeing as I haven't seen the last four episodes, I may change my mind about those scenes. But it still feels like Zubashi and Gangles could be used more effectively than they are with some of the scenes they have now. But to be fair, I'll wait and see the last four episodes.

AdminAdam wrote:
Now I wasn't knockin Season 4 as a whole, just Episode 50. It was good for some laughs but it was incredibly episodic. Like a cartoon, nothing important happened. Ignoring the plot of the second half of Season 4 the first half was focused on Mario getting Snake his money and this episode is skip-able in that aspect.


I never said you were knocking Season 4 as a whole. But I personally disagree with you defining Episode 50 as filler for the first half of Season 4. Like you said, it was about Mario trying to get Snake his money. Luigi and Wario, because of their friendship with Mario cared enough to assist in Mario's mission to get the money. So they decided to go to a poker game to help him get money. If going to the poker game had nothing to do with helping Mario, I would agree with you. But it was a plan to help Mario get out of his situation with Snake. If we're going to define that as filler, we might as well declare the Mafia plot as filler as well, since the conclusion was pretty much the same as the conclusion to the poker game.

Now, if Episode 50's plot took place while trying to hunt down a villain? Yeah, I would be right there with you.

AdminAdam wrote:
Oh don't get me wrong, some of the Zubashi and Gangles stuff was hilarious. The Magazine gag, the date gag, etc. But once they made the breakfast joke and the movie gag, and I stopped laughing. It wasn't funny. goofing off - comedy = unfunny filler.


I agree with you on the movie gag (the breakfast joke I thought was harmless, although I didn't think it was that funny.) To be honest, I wasn't that fond of the date gag, but I'll admit it's just not my cup of tea. I think the issue with Zubashi and Gangles isn't that they aren't funny. They are. But they work even better when interacting with other villians/heroes. That's where they truly get to shine.

I'll admit, I'm very curious to see when Zubashi and Captain Morgan confront each other. I just feel the lead up to the confrontation needs to be more than just "Now's not the right time."

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:51 am 
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Well it sounds like everyone just doesn't like Zubashi and Gangles on there own, that's a shame, because i had been building up their characters to introduce them in their own spin off show. But it sounds like it won't be successful, so i'll do something else instead lol

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:13 am 
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Richalvarez wrote:
Well it sounds like everyone just doesn't like Zubashi and Gangles on there own, that's a shame, because i had been building up their characters to introduce them in their own spin off show. But it sounds like it won't be successful, so i'll do something else instead lol


I think their characters are funny. People who don't enjoy them is probably because they don't follow the storyline as they seem to have a side comedy to the episode, but hey, what TV shows don't have those once in a while?

I found it odd how they were mentioning movies released around the time you guys where filming since most of them (or probably all) are on DVD release.

It will be interesting to know how their final appearance will be made in the Season Finale. With the whole Zelda mythology thing about Link being the only one able to use the Master Sword to defat Ganondorf and Zubashi and Gangles' scenes being seen as fillers, I can agree with the critics on those parts, however I wouldn't judge it until the Season and show is over. We still don't know how Ganondorf will be defeated and what will become of the Darkness and the fates of the other characters, and since you have the plan recorded, I'm not one to say negative to whatever people feel disappointed about. The truth is, disappointment and twisting mythologies shows creativity in a good way and once the ending is made, people will go, "everything fits in and makes sense!" I have a few theories on how Ganondorf will be defeated and whether if it's Mario or Link using the Master Sword.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:33 pm 
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I think those ninjas would have better reception outside StMB, where they slow down the flow. On their own they would be great!

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:56 pm 
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Richalvarez wrote:
Well it sounds like everyone just doesn't like Zubashi and Gangles on there own, that's a shame, because i had been building up their characters to introduce them in their own spin off show. But it sounds like it won't be successful, so i'll do something else instead lol


I don't want to discourage you from trying something new. They are fun characters. It's just for season 5's plot, the fact that they are doing this stuff is kind of weird.

I would be interested, (if you really want to do a spin-off show) to see the first episode of this. I mean, maybe it could work in a spin-off show.

... Although if you happen to work on a certain UPS/Fedex spin-off first, I would be cool with that.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:19 pm 
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mmmm... i like them, they're pretty funny lol.They're funny enough to be good in they're own little show lol but i kinda have to agree with everyone else, zubashi and gangles are just kinda random in season 5 but as you said before the series is meant to be more funny than serious. I think thats what people are forgetting, i think everyone is to obsessed with the main plot and such. I guess Richie is tryyna make every show at least a little bit funny cuz of random people who stumble across the series to make them stay and watch more, because if its all serious then like new people might not stay to watch the show.. lol just a thought. ya get me? lol

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:49 pm 
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I think just like how you plan to do a UPS/FedEX Interactive Adventure soon, I think you should do one with Zubashi and Gangles whether they are liked or "meh" to people. But of course it depends on what their fates are once the show ends. But then again an Interactive adventure on them could take place before Zubashi appeared in Season 4. I mean it would be cool seeing Zubashi and Gangles just trying to fit in by making choices by either failing or succeeding. Where as UPS and FedEX however have their rivalry between them and now knowing about UPS' past being a football player in school and a FedEX truck ruining his career that was set ahead of him, it would make a great Interactive adventure between those two.

If you plan to make more Interactive Adventures once Stupid Mario Brothers is over, I'd like to see these two.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:01 pm 
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Richalvarez wrote:
Well it sounds like everyone just doesn't like Zubashi and Gangles on there own, that's a shame, because i had been building up their characters to introduce them in their own spin off show. But it sounds like it won't be successful, so i'll do something else instead lol

I was feeling that kinda vibe with them. A spinoff show would be interesting starring the two of them, as long as it's funny. For example when you put the two of them in an ordinary scenario such as going on a date, that was pretty funny. But if you have them standing in a forest buying time until some plot happens that they play a semi-minor role in, then I don't think it would go over too well. It's an interesting concept, I would try a spinoff short before a whole spinoff show first though. See how it goes over. Most of the dislike towards them sounds like dislike towards their role in Season 5, not so much the characters themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Stupid Mario Brothers - Episode 71
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:00 pm 
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anyways this is totally off topic but i see rich is on this thing a lot. I just saw that update vid and i got a ticket for the la convention center thing! lol um i wasnt sure which date is it. im just tryyna make its the 5th right or are u gonna be there the 4th-6th?

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