Evil

Lady Juse · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:20 am

Here's something that can make you think...

...is there evil? Or is there just good for different people?

Shado_Temple · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:25 am

I just recently read Paradise Lost, which deeply covers this issue.

What is good if evil does not exist, and vice versa? Both good and evil are determined through their counterparts, and thus could not exist without one another (ie. the idea behind God and Satan). I mean, after all, if there was no evil in this world, how could we determine if something is "good" or not?

MrPBJ · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:31 am

Same as above. There is no good and there is no evil y fact. All is opinion.

wiitard · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:31 am

there is good and there is evil. Even you atheists would admit that murdering or raping someone is "wrong". When you have "wrong" there must be "right". Right is good, correct? Wrong is evil/bad, correct? so there is Right or Wrong in the world even from an Athiest perspective.

O and to answer the one thing you said. Right is different for different people. Right is Right, Wrong is Wrong. Kind of like Truth is Truth. If I told you that "For you Barrack Obama is president is true but for me its not" you'd think I was an idiot. Truth is Truth, like Right is Right.

amphungus · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:59 pm

While there are seemingly universal morals (ie, rape and murder are generally regarded as evil acts across all societies), what is right and wrong, good and evil and "truthful" entirely depends on your point of view. There is no concrete way to determine these factors except for the popular opinion. Even laws imposed by government institutions are put in place to take advantage of the populace (ie. heavy fines for minor, pointless misdemeanors), rather than out of morality.

While I like to think there is a right and there is a wrong, there are massive gray areas that can't be ignored. Bad people can be good, good people can be bad, and none of it matters because badness and goodness are purely matters of context.

Crystal Star Night · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:44 pm

shado_temple wrote:

I just recently read Paradise Lost, which deeply covers this issue.

What is good if evil does not exist, and vice versa? Both good and evil are determined through their counterparts, and thus could not exist without one another (ie. the idea behind God and Satan). I mean, after all, if there was no evil in this world, how could we determine if something is "good" or not?

Almost like "how can there be darkness without no light." "There can be no light without darkness."
There will always be a difference between people, but the true evilness comes from the men that wish eo to harm to others. That is what i believe anyways. -huggles-

wiitard · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:45 pm

Truth is Truth as in Me saying I alive and not dead is Truth no matter what your perspective. In the world we live in saying The Bible is true is not universal because everyone dosent believe but its the same principal. Wether you think I'm dead or not I'm alive and wether u think the Bible is just a fairytale or not it isnt.

Shado_Temple · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:45 pm

wiitard wrote:

there is good and there is evil. Even you atheists would admit that murdering or raping someone is "wrong". When you have "wrong" there must be "right". Right is good, correct? Wrong is evil/bad, correct? so there is Right or Wrong in the world even from an Athiest perspective.

O and to answer the one thing you said. Right is different for different people. Right is Right, Wrong is Wrong. Kind of like Truth is Truth. If I told you that "For you Barrack Obama is president is true but for me its not" you'd think I was an idiot. Truth is Truth, like Right is Right.

I' not atheist; I happen to be a devout lutheran. What I'm trying to say is that evil is in perspective to good; yes, we may all have basic principles, but what we may perceive as "wrong" in our society may be "right" in anothers. Say, for example, there is a serial killer next in line on death row. While he is paying for his crimes, we as society are still engaging in the process of murdering him (in a sense; not saying capital punishment is bad). As the others have said, there are too many gray areas in life to determine everything in black-and-white terms.

amphungus · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:45 pm

wiitard wrote:

Truth is Truth as in Me saying I alive and not dead is Truth no matter what your perspective.

Perspective is everything. Who is to say you're not dead? Who defines life? Is life defined by happiness, success, procreation, or simply that we're living and breathing? Are you truly alive if you're not intimate with a god? Is life real? Are we just immaterial manifestations in someones head? ARE WE IN THE MATRIX? etcetera, etcetera.

Quote:

In the world we live in saying The Bible is true is not universal because everyone dosent believe but its the same principal. Wether you think I'm dead or not I'm alive and wether u think the Bible is just a fairytale or not it isnt.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here so please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, you're saying, even though your religion is not accepted by everyone, doesn't mean it's not true? That's fair, I can get behind that. But it doesn't mean it IS true. You deem it to be true because of your perspective. I deem it to NOT be true because of MY perspective. So which one of us is right? Who is to say who is right? How can we know who is right?

We really are not supposed to be debating religion. In this case you're using it as a symbol so that's perfectly cool, but I really do not want this to turn into a religious debate. Just a heads up!

Cap · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:55 pm

well Amph when the topic is "Evil"...you are bound to get some religious veiws... i agree with what has been earlier said, in that Evil is defined by Good...to an extent, Evil is the Opposite of Good

bArMyBoY · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:59 pm

I believe that everyone has an opinion on what is evil and what isn't evil.
Though someone has to put the foot down and make his opinion LAW.
Which is what the government is for.
They make what the think is wrong punishable. If you raped someone, to them it's evil. To the rapist it may be just a laugh, it may be mental sickness. Who knows? But to the government it's Evil no matter what the driving force behind the deed is.

What i'm saying is everyone has an idea of what evil is. But at the end of the day theres only a few men/women who make it official. (And imo i don't think they have the right)

amphungus · **Posted:** Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:35 pm

Cap wrote:

well Amph when the topic is "Evil"...you are bound to get some religious veiws...

Well, what I mean is we don't want it to turn into a "THE BIBLE IS REAL! / NO IT ISN'T!" thing.

wiitard · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:08 pm

amphungus wrote:

Cap wrote:

well Amph when the topic is "Evil"...you are bound to get some religious veiws...

Well, what I mean is we don't want it to turn into a "THE BIBLE IS REAL! / NO IT ISN'T!" thing.

I actually was not interested in turning it into that. You have no grounds to believe I was. I was simply using an example. And although I don't intend to sound mean or offend you I will end with this anyway:

Shut up and look stupid or open your mouth and remove all doubt.

amphungus · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:59 pm

And for you to assume that I thought that that was your intention is, well... open your mouth, etcetera...?

wiitard · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:45 pm

amphungus wrote:

wiitard wrote:

Truth is Truth as in Me saying I alive and not dead is Truth no matter what your perspective.

Perspective is everything. Who is to say you're not dead? Who defines life? Is life defined by happiness, success, procreation, or simply that we're living and breathing? Are you truly alive if you're not intimate with a god? Is life real? Are we just immaterial manifestations in someones head? ARE WE IN THE MATRIX? etcetera, etcetera.

Quote:

In the world we live in saying The Bible is true is not universal because everyone dosent believe but its the same principal. Wether you think I'm dead or not I'm alive and wether u think the Bible is just a fairytale or not it isnt.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here so please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, you're saying, even though your religion is not accepted by everyone, doesn't mean it's not true? That's fair, I can get behind that. But it doesn't mean it IS true. You deem it to be true because of your perspective. I deem it to NOT be true because of MY perspective. So which one of us is right? Who is to say who is right? How can we know who is right?

We really are not supposed to be debating religion. In this case you're using it as a symbol so that's perfectly cool, but I really do not want this to turn into a religious debate. Just a heads up!

Well, we can see here that you quoted me, and then in the last part of your post you asked me not to turn this into a religious debate. Now you said:

Amphungus wrote:

Well, what I mean is we don't want it to turn into a "THE BIBLE IS REAL! / NO IT ISN'T!" thing.

What your saying is that ^that was what you meant by "not turning this into a religion debate". And You asked ME not to do so, you wouldnt have asked me NOT too if you hadnt been worried I would.

Evil

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